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Chat subject: Water Injection
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11:38:02 [jplus] just checking out the site. 14:53:54 [dwight2] Hey George 14:54:10 [george] Hi Dwight2 14:55:07 [george] Did you have any questions about water injection 14:55:16 [dwight2] ust curious , have you already tryed steam injection? 14:55:57 [george] Yes, in various ways. Do you have a specific question? 14:57:00 [dwight2] I just remember what an old john deere mechanic told me about usein it on early tractors 14:57:00 [george] If no specific question, I can talk generally about my experience and thoughts. 14:57:16 [dwight2] go for it 14:58:31 [george] I know they used it OEM on farm equipment, for the same reasons they should be using it today. It helps combustion efficiency, producing more power while using less fuel. What did the mechanic tell you? 14:59:27 [dwight2] that there was an expansion tank they siphoned the steam off of and after the tractor was warmed up it doubled the horsepower 15:00:31 [dwight2] the expansion tank was like an over flow for the radiator 15:00:41 [george] Generally, I first determined that steam was a good thing. Then experimented with volume of steam. Then I started experimenting with various ways to produce the steam. 15:01:38 [dwight2] what do you prefer water or steam? 15:03:26 [george] The expansion tank you're describing is like an old fashioned 'boiler'. It works very well. 15:05:05 [george] My latest design is to use a 'boiler' heated with exhaust. Inside the boiler I put lots of beads/pellets of metal to act as thermal mass; then I spray the water in with an injector. 15:06:43 [george] The water turns to steam very quickly and I can regulate the volume. Further, I'm experimenting with materials that actually cause the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen. This is how I think the French patent worked. 15:09:03 [george] An alternative to a 'boiler' is the 'generator'; which is a long tube wrapped in a coil. This coil is heated and the water turns to steam on the way through. Steam cleaners use this type of steam maker. 15:09:58 [dwight2] ok, I've heard that steam has the capacity to expand to 12 times its original volume 15:10:01 [george] I describe these various options in the 'Super Gas Saver Secrets'. Has anyone here experimented with water injection? 15:11:11 [dwight2] just one of the vacumn actuated bublers 15:11:55 [george] Actually, water can expand more than 1500 times, depending on the temperature. This is what actually causes the water to 'quench' the explosion when you are using water to replace the 'cooling' portion of your fuel. 15:12:49 [dwight2] doesn't that lower thermal effiecency? 15:16:40 [george] dwight2 : Yes, at the very minimum, people should use the 'water vapor' injection. However water vapor injection will not work on most EFI systems because it acts as a 'vacuum leak' which lowers the intake manifold vacuum and causes the computer to react by adding additional fuel. 15:17:01 [george] For EFI I recommend straight water Injection. 15:18:28 [george] dwight2 : No, the thermal efficiency is increased a lot. You are using LESS fuel to achieve MORE power and the exhaust temperatures are COOLER. 15:19:12 [dwight2] ok 15:19:49 [george] Anyone here have a copy of the 'Water Injection' Manual? 15:21:15 [george] Are there different types of water injection described in the Water Injection Manual that you are interested in? 15:24:14 [george] OK.... I'm wondering how to proceed. Do you guys want to know the advantages of water injection, or do you want to know how to apply it? 15:24:44 [dwight2] both for me 15:25:32 [george] dwight2 : OK, what is your vehicle? 15:25:53 [dwight2] 67 GMC truck 350 15:27:52 [jplus] Hi George, just listening in on the conversation, but I do have a copy of the Water Injection Manual. Have water vapor injection on an EFI SYSTEM which I will soon convert to liquid injection as per the manual. 15:28:41 [george] Whoo. that's a big rig. Bet you have trouble in parking lots Do you have any fuel saving technology on it now? 15:29:18 [dwight2] had it up to 20 mpg with just stock tuning 15:29:29 [george] jplus : good. You'll see a better gain. 15:30:04 [dwight2] I'm planning on purchasing your enhancer this week 15:32:13 [george] OK. First some advantages of water injection. It gives increased power by making the combustion process more efficient. A little known fact is that at least a trace of water is required for combustion of fossil-fuel. 15:34:09 [george] Second, water injection actually allows you to replace a portion of the fuel that is used ONLY for quenching the combustion in the cylinder. This additional fuel is wasted and is responsible for most of the pollution. 15:35:02 [george] dwight2 : Which Enhancer? Carb. or EFI? 15:35:10 [dwight2] carb 15:37:49 [george] dwight2 : Great, you'll love it. Your type of truck is in the catagory that gets the best gains, because the Carburetor Enhancer cuts back the fuel when you don't need it, yet gives you full power (more actually) when you do need it. 15:38:53 [dwight2] I played with the Q jet a lot to get that 20mpg , should I leave it alone? 15:39:10 [dowser] George, I have recently moved to a non smog testing area and am having a friend rebuild a motor for my new (used) Mazda B2000 p/u. I plan to adapt water to the carb system but am not sure quite how to go about it. I have removed all the unnecessary hardware going back to a simple motor. Should I w 15:40:34 [george] Third, Water Injection actually reduces the total water output of your engine, because fuel turns into carbon dioxide and WATER at a ratio of about 8 gallons of water to a gallon of fuel. 15:40:45 [dowser] Should I work toward some sort of water injection or steam? 15:42:30 [george] So, for every gallon of fuel you replace with water, you lose 8 gallons of exhause water. This helps your exhaust backpressure because the water exits the engine as steam, and less steam volume means less backpressure or more power. 15:44:46 [george] dwight2 : The CE Manual has recommendations to modify the Q-jet. It sounds like you've already done a lot. Check it over to see if there's something extra you can do. The CE works BEST on carburetors that are functioning properly. Also check out the recommendations I'm making in my newsletter. 15:45:13 [dwight2] k thanks 15:46:14 [Tenaj] The chats narmally run ONE hour. Would you guys like to extend to 30 min. more? 15:46:50 [dowser] Yes 15:47:04 [dwight2] if George is game 15:47:07 [george] dowser : Buy the Super Gas Saver Secrets, Water Injection, HyZor and Water as Fuel books. These will give you the options and plans. Then you can email me with specific fine-tuning questions. 15:47:32 [jplus] George, I've sent an e-mail you probably haven't gotten to read yet. It concerns the FIVS GEN III (fuel implosion vaporization system) as found at http://www.get113to138mpg.com. I'm wondering if water is compatible with such vaporing systems, and if so in what form, liquid, water, or steam? 15:48:17 [Tenaj] OKAY! We'll go until 3:30 pm (Pacific time) 15:48:58 [madmaxx] has anyone here ever heard of a Hyco injector used for the purpose of injecting water into the throat of a carburator 15:49:08 [george] dowser : personally, I'd start with water injection, get a feel for it and THEN go to steam. Steam is harder because it is tricky to control the volume. That's why I'm going to the system I described at the start of this chat. 15:50:52 [Rod] George, which form of water is most combustion efficient in a carb vehicle, liquid, water vapor or steam? 15:50:54 [dwight2] George when it is below freezing out is there something you add to the water supply to keep it from freezing 15:51:20 [george] jplus : Yes, water injection is compatible with the FIVS system. It's compatible with any system that burn's petro-fuel, including diesels and furnaces. 15:53:13 [dwight2] yeah we dripped water into a waste oil burner, and man , it increased the heat output a buinch 15:53:39 [george] Steam is most efficient. But I don't often recommend it because I haven't written a manual describing simple, effective, efficient applications yet; like I have for liquid water injection. I'm still experimenting. There's even the possibility of converting to 90% water. 15:55:45 [george] dwight2 : yeah, I did a similar thing. I was experimenting with a used oil vortex burner and I tossed in a snowball. The heat increase was almost like a controlled explosion, at least ten times the heat (subjective, I didn't measure it). 15:56:06 [jplus] George, did you apply any form of water to your exhaust heated 200 mpg pressurized vapor system? 15:57:31 [george] madmaxx : The HyCO 2A system is incompatible with water, as it freezes the water into ice. The HyCO 2DT works great with water, fuel, used oil, etc. In fact, with such a mixture I once got an invisible flame. 15:57:57 [madmaxx] I have installed a smog pump on a carburated chv 350 engine and have used a water bottle from an alchohol injecton system for big 16 wheeler trucks. I desire to use the pressure from the smog pump to create the air stream into the throat of the carb and venturi the water injection into the carb 15:58:07 [george] dwight2 : yes add alcohol to prevent freezing. 15:58:47 [madmaxx] I read somewhere that a special venturi type thing was available years ago for injecting the water 16:00:11 [george] jplus : no, I did the 200 mpg system before I learned about water injection. I accidentally used what I now know as Thermal Catalytic Cracking or TCC. 16:00:37 [madmaxx] Do you sell some type of such venturi type water injection nozzle? 16:03:31 [george] madmaxx : then you have an ideal situaltion to apply the HyCO 2DT, which requires a low pressure air supply. See details in the HyCO 2DT Manual. 16:04:04 [george] madmaxx : Once you have it rigged for Water Injection, look into applying the HyCO 2DT in it's regular form and the HyZor as well. The gains of such a system can save a trucker over $10,000 a year 16:05:34 [george] madmaxx : yes, venturi's do work to inject water. Some people even use carburetors to inject water. 16:06:15 [george] madmaxx : No, I don't sell any venturi devices at this time. 16:07:22 [jplus] George, what is an approximate ratio of fuel to water( liquid form) in a typical installation which has had no previous modifications? Which form of water allows highest water ratio? 16:07:56 [madmaxx] can you suggest a possible source for such a nozzle/injector? I like the smog pump idea cause it varies the pressure with the rpm's 16:11:30 [george] jplus : good question, with no clear answer, at least not one I can say because there are so many variables. Let's say ordinary installation of liquid water injection on dwight2's truck, he'd be able to add up to a quart of water to 5 gallons of fuel. 16:12:36 [george] When he ad and he has the Carburetor Enhancer, he can put in 2 quarts of water per 5 gallons, maybe more. When he adds the HyZor, he should be able to replace half his fuel with water. 16:13:47 [george] Steam will still work best, but here I'm recommending water Injection because I can back up my suggestions with actual plans. 16:15:22 [george] madmaxx : Sorry, I cannot make a nozzle/injector recommendation offhand. My recommendation is the HyCO 2DT, which also works well with variable air pressure. 16:18:37 [george] I have a fairly good rumor that the heavier the fuel-oil, the more of it you can replace with water and still have combustion. In Japan, my report says, when using heavy oil they've replaced up to 90% of the oil with water. 16:18:43 [dwight2] Have you done anything with motorcycles and water injection? 16:20:52 [Tenaj] REMINDER: Only 10 minutes left in this chat 16:21:09 [george] This combustion enhancement effect has been seen in many used oil burners (and you can get used oil for free), increasing the flame temperature to a WHITE hot flame. For some reason, these patents and devices never make it to the market. My experiments don't show any real technical problem. 16:21:32 [Tenaj] NO CHAT > JULY / 02 16:22:14 [george] dwight2 : Motorcycles and I aren't aquainted but I see no reason that water injection wouldn't work on motorcycles 16:23:44 [Tenaj] NEXT CHAT: Saturday Sept. 14/02 ; 2PM /1400 hrs (Pacific Time) SUBJECT: Make $$$ with Brown's Gas!!! 16:24:24 [george] madmaxx : once you get the HyCO 2DT manual, be sure to check out how I use turbo-pressure. In a lot of trucks, you won't have to add your smog pump to get a simple, efficient system. 16:24:37 [Rod] George, is there any difference in the application of water injection in a diesel engine vs. a gasoline one? 16:25:30 [jplus] George, has anyone yet reported a HyZor/ water inj. combination on a large truck? What percentage gain might I expect for my 4 cyl. S10 PU? Presently averaging 28-31 mpg. 16:25:43 [Tenaj] Please get in any last minute questions 16:26:50 [george] Rod : No difference in the application, a big difference in the result. Diesel is a heavier oil and benifits more from the water. I explain this effect more in my booklet called 'Why > 200 mpg is possible' 16:27:35 [Tenaj] CHAT WILL BE POSTED ON EAGLE-RESEARCH SITE. https://eagle-research.org/chat/chat.php Give us 24 hours. 16:28:15 [dwight2] THankyou George for your time and info 16:29:36 [Tenaj] Thank You all for joining the Eagle-Research chat with George 16:29:45 [george] jplus : I have lots of data on historical electrolyzers and water injection on trucks, one testimonial claimed a 50% increase. I have very little feedback on my HyZor yet because it is so new. I expect consistantly better than the old systems because the HyZor is so much more efficient. 16:30:27 [george] I'm just getting a complete system tested now, and the results are encouraging. 16:31:13 [Tenaj] Watch for the Eagle E-NEWS in June for exciting HyZor reports beginning to come in 16:32:13 [george] jplus : in a four cylinder, with fuel control and the HyZor/water injection, I'd expect at least a 50% gain. 16:32:39 [george] Thanks guys for a great chat. See you next time 16:32:39 [jplus] Thanks George, looking forward to the Brown's Gas chat. 16:33:09 [Rod] George, thanks for the informative chat. 16:33:19 [Tenaj] Catch ya next time! Thank You for your interest in Eagle-Research Fuel Saving technology 16:38:30 [jplus] maddmax, I'm sure you can find a water nozzle/injector by doing a weg search. I saw one a few weeks ago, but don't recall the website. 16:39:35 [madmaxx] If you can locate such a device, I would greatly appreciate a link at madmaxx@teluplanet.net 16:46:16 [jplus] Sure thing, madmaxx. Are you familiar with any of George's other technologies: Brown's Gas, Energy Conserver circuits,chargers, HyCo 2A, etc.? 17:03:13 [jplus] Are you still there maddmax? will e-mail nozzle link if I can find it again. See you later.
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